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hillbillyzombie
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LetMeSeeYourO
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Green Yellow31439
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Green Yellow31439
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johnch said...
Ichiro had a large negative "win/share" rating, meaning he cost the Mariners far more games than he won over the past five years. Factoring in the results and the salary Ichiro got paid makes him the single most overpaid and overrated player in the history of major league baseball. Don't take my word for this: it's a widely accepted fact of life. All the top major league teams now use win/share analysis to build their teams.
2000 singles do not offset 4400 outs. Ichiro walked less and hit fewer long balls than any hitter who made as many outs.
If you doubt this, consider what the Mariners got back from NY after shopping Ichiro to any and all takers for the last month and paying part of his salary even after the trade. The market doesn't lie.
I. too, greatly enjoyed watching Ichiro during his first years with the Mariners. I loved how he played right field. That 2001 116 win Mariner team was magical, but Ichiro was not the best hitter on that team. Martinez, Olerud, Cameron and Brett Boone won more games that year than Ichiro.
Your protest proves my point. If you and many others didn't think Ichiro was a great player ... in spite of his recent years of extremely low production while being paid $20 million a year ... then he wouldn't have been overrated.
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johnch said...
Ichiro had a large negative "win/share" rating, meaning he cost the Mariners far more games than he won over the past five years. Factoring in the results and the salary Ichiro got paid makes him the single most overpaid and overrated player in the history of major league baseball. Don't take my word for this: it's a widely accepted fact of life. All the top major league teams now use win/share analysis to build their teams.
2000 singles do not offset 4400 outs. Ichiro walked less and hit fewer long balls than any hitter who made as many outs.
If you doubt this, consider what the Mariners got back from NY after shopping Ichiro to any and all takers for the last month and paying part of his salary even after the trade. The market doesn't lie.
I. too, greatly enjoyed watching Ichiro during his first years with the Mariners. I loved how he played right field. That 2001 116 win Mariner team was magical, but Ichiro was not the best hitter on that team. Martinez, Olerud, Cameron and Brett Boone won more games that year than Ichiro.
Your protest proves my point. If you and many others didn't think Ichiro was a great player ... in spite of his recent years of extremely low production while being paid $20 million a year ... then he wouldn't have been overrated.
Green Yellow31439
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johnch said...
I grew up in Chicago watching the Cubs and Sox with my Grandfather and Great Uncle, two old school semi-pro Catchers. Gran caught the young Babe Ruth during a barnstorming swing through the South. My Great Uncle played against an ancient Cy Young on another barnstorming tour. That's how old time baseball players made money.
Every ball game with these two old guys was a lecture and a debate.
I wondered why the great Cubs team in 1969 lost to the obviously inferior Mets. The debate between the two of them lasted several years. The Mets led off with Tommy Agee who got on base and also had power. The Cubs led off with Don Kessinger and Glen Beckert, two guys who rarely got on base and had no power. They were inning destroyers hitting right before Billy Williams, Ron Santo and Ernie Banks, a crazy move which cost the Cubs five to ten wins a year. The Cub Manager was Leo "The Lip" Durocher, a stubborn, nasty old man who never changed the lineup. Durocher was kicked off the great 20's Yankee team for stealing cash out of Babe Ruth's locker. He also got the shit kicked out of him.
The Mets Manager, Gil Hodges understood the worth of a walk from playing on the '50's Brooklyn teams with PeeWee Reese, Robinson, Snider, Campanella and Furillo, all on-base machines who took pitches.
When I first read Bill James and later Michael Lewis' "Moneyball" the facts and theory were laid out to support what those two wise old baseball guys told me 30 years earlier. A guy who won't take a pitch had better hit 30 home runs, play shortstop like Ossie Smith or become a role player. Ichiro rose way beyond being a role player but he had no business making ten All-Star games or getting $20 million a year.
As a postscript, my Grandfather used baseball to support himself while becoming one of the first electrical engineers in America. He worked until he was 92 because he was one of the last guys who could design and fix the few remaining, pre-transistor monster switchboards. He also fought in both WWI and WWII.
My Great Uncle helped invent fiber optics, early transistors and lasers, which he never patented, believing in open sourcing before the word existed. I guess my Uncle got the last laugh since his transistors ultimately put Gran out of work!
Both were proudest of their baseball exploits. Babe Ruth was a sucker for a slow Jamie Moyer-like curve. Cy Young was the worst base runner either of them had ever seen, although Ron Santo seemed to get thrown out each and every game trying to go from first to third. Willie Mays was the best player we ever saw together. They would have loved to watch Barry Bonds walk almost 200 times during the greatest season a hitter ever had, which was not the year he hit 72 home runs.





Ichiro is now a Yankee..